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Two Shaws?

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The main feature of my theory regarding Prometheus is that much of the mission depicted in the movie is a simulated reality replay of the events of an earlier mission and is based mostly memories of some of the crew from that mission (there is also probably some manipulation of events by the person running the simulation). In effect the past has been brought forth into the present.
 
Ridley gives us a clue or foreshadowing of the past being brought forth into the present (the mission that is presented in the film) through the use of the hologram (a form of simulated reality) in the mission meeting. The hologram of the possibly long-deceased Weyland, is from the past and is "bought forth" into the present/future and, in a limited way, is able to interact with the other characters - for example, David, Holloway and Shaw.  Ridley repeats this concept with the space jockey holograms - they are from the past, more than likely already dead, yet, altho there's no interaction, David and the crew are able to observe what happened to them in the past.

Now for some evidence. Let's have a look at the frenzied end sequence when Shaw is in the escape pod. The focus is on Holloway's ring - when she's wearing it and when she isn't - and where the action is taking place.

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The above two images are taken just before Holloway discovers the worm in his eye. The significance of these shots are the importance Ridley attaches to Holloway's removal of his ring - as signified by the extreme close-up of him placing it on the wash basin. In my theory, Holloway knows his goose is cooked, that he is sacrificing himself for the sake of the mission and leaves the ring left behind for Shaw to find. For some reason it is important that she wear the ring.

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The above images are the reverse of the Holloway ones, showing Shaw picking up the ring (another extreme close-up) and putting it on.  Remember, before she puts the ring on, she is very distraught and looks like she has lost the will to go on. It is Holloway's ring that gives her the strength to keep going.

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When Shaw arrives at Vicker's "lifeboat" pod, escaping the mayhem outside, we would be expecting her to be wearing the ring on her left hand (altho we can't be sure because she is wearing gloves) 

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However, when she takes her gloves off, the ring, which she should be on her left hand, is nowhere to be seen. The often ambiguous Ridley clearly wants us to see this and gives us a good look in shot three.

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Shaw investigates the noise coming from the medpod room. In her POV we can see the swinging medpod as Shaw left it and sqiddlo post-op.

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Shaw gets call from David, who mysteriously seems to know where she is. She is still not wearing the ring at this stage. Pic 7 is where, I think, a memory switch takes place.


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Shaw unravels herself from the squid/jockey wrestle and, lo and behold, there's the ring - lit up like a christmas tree. Once again, Ridley is giving us every chance of spotting this. Pic 9 is outside Vicker's pod and Ridley gives us a nice close up of the ring. When Shaw joins David, we see she still has the ring. However, when she is lowering him from the jockey ship, she has her gloves back on, so we can't be sure which Shaw she is - the ringless one or the other (Ridley is perhaps trying to make it look like there are two Shaws - this is not really the case).


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Meanwhile, the wrestling match inside the pod continues with squiddo getting the upper hand (since he has more of them). We learn here that the squid is definitely male - he comes very quickly and immediately falls asleep, as if dead. However, very importantly, if we look past the wrestlers into the medpod room, we see that not only is the swinging, bloodied medpod gone (see pic 5), but has it has been replaced by something else, possibly what Holloway was sitting on while the others were blowing up the jockey head. In fact, what we see over squiddo's shoulder is probably not even the medpod  room. (For comparison, pic 11 shows the medpod room pre-op).


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This image is not from movie but a photo taken on set but I included it because it gives a much clearer view of the pod room. But if you look at the actual end scene you will see the bottom part of the swinging medpod behind the dead squiddo.

So what is actually happening in this end sequence? It looks like there are two Shaws in two different locations (and perhaps different time dimensions) and the action is switching back and forth. This is not what's happening.

To explain this properly I need to wind back the movie. The person we know as Shaw is receiving memories from Ford, the real Shaw from the (much) earlier mission (as well as memory implants from others on board). The memory transfer and implants are not instance but take place over the length of the movie.

I'll start with Ford.

1. When we first see Ford at breakfast she has red hair, similar to Shaw's. Small clue.
2. During the land, Ford is very chirpy and animated. We don't see her like this again. She is also doing the science stuff - atmosphere readings, terrain data. - things you'd think our two intrepid scientists, S and H, would be doing. They're not doing it because they don't know shit about science.
3. However, even though Ford is quite chirpy, she confuses CO2 with carbon monoxide (pretty dumb whether you're a scientist or a nurse). She also says, "Peak portside" but right (port is left). This is a clue that the memory theft has already started.

4. It's all downhill after that. Even though she's in numerous scenes right up to the end, she doesn't contribute much. There's her panicky effort prior to blowing up the jockey head and she screams when the snake jumps out of Milburn's mouth. But after her clash with Shaw in the medical room (where she momentarily regains some of her chirpiness), she's doesn't utter a sound.  No more science, she's more like a nurse for the aged as she accompanies Weyland to the jugger.

5. During the confrontation with the jockey, she can't even offer up a scream.

6. And Ridley gives us another clue. In the shot immediately after David makes his statement - "in order to create first one must destroy," we see a close-up of Shaw - the one that is being created. Then Shaw moves slightly to the left to reveal Ford behind her - the one who is being destroyed. Shaw then moves back to center screen, eclipsing Ford both literally and metaphorically.

For Shaw the journey is in the opposite direction. She moves from someone who has moments of doubt and very little in her head apart from what's been implanted - hence the "I choose to believe" because she has nothing else to offer except a few implanted memories. She becomes more competent in science as the memory transfers kick in (altho it's pretty whacko at times). By the end of the movies she is a much stronger character and is telling the captain what to do.

Sorry but I'll have to finish this tomorrow sometime - I'm using my wife's laptop at the moment and she's kicking me off. Thank god because I'm knackered. And my apologies for those posts I haven't replied to yet.
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NO MORE THOUGHT PROVOKING SCI FI films anymore

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I just notice a trend lately that there aren't a lot of thought provoking science fiction films anymore has they used to be don't know whats going on lately but hey care to think why there isn't. I had a discussion on having a Fritz Langs Metropolis remade or reinterpreted. Only problem is i don't think people are ready because Metropolis dealt with Social Class and Class Warfare and i just feel they will tun it into a science fiction action film instead of how it was a Science Fiction Drama, and considered the first Cyberpunk by many sci fi fans. Cyberpunk Genre has become more action now then it used to be so i think if they did do a modern day Metropolis it will turn into a Cyberpunk action film which i dont want. It shoud be a Cyberpunk/Science Fiction Drama with amazing effects but hey we can waste CGI on affects that stay there and arent moving smh

LIFE SIZE Engineer Statue from Comic-Con

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If there's one thing that San Diego Comic-Con is known for beside big studio movie reveals, is the toys and collectibles which various retailers debut and preview. Today is no exception, as world-renowned figure / collectible manufacturer, Sideshow Collectibles debuted their upcoming Prometheus: Engineer statue! No word on release dates just yet, but from the pics below, it looks like the statue will set you back about $180.00 US.

Below are the first pics of the statue on display, from San Diego. You can see the figure comes with the fossilized Engineer Bio-Suit Helmet or "Space Jockey Helmet" as well:

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Prometheus alternate ending (ft. The Deacon)

Something worthwhile from IMDB - funny stuff

Lindelof's original hammerpede scene vs. final version

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The original version seems way better than what we saw in the film.  Fifield, stoned, grabs the centipede from behind Millburn, starts teasing him it him, messing around, before the rest of it goes down.

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FIFIELD AND MILLBURN, now holed up safely in the desiccated remains of the AMPULE ROOM.

Millburn taps on his WRIST CONSOLE -- VWWWWHR -- INSIDE HIS HELMET -- a SMALL STRAW slowly rises up to his lips. He takes a long SIP --

MILLBURN
Yum. Gazpacho.

Fifield, meanwhile, is getting something entirely different from his straw... exhales a LUNGFUL OF SMOKE into his helmet -- taps his wrist -- FWAAAASH! -- The smoke VENTS out through the suit’s EXHAUST. Millburn can’t believe his eyes --

MILLBURN (CONT’D)
What the hell’re you doing?

FIFIELD
(isn’t it obvious?)
Smoking.

MILLBURN
You put tobacco into your respirator?

FIFIELD
Sure, man. Tobacco.

Millburn looks at him. Fifield grins goofily. Draw your own conclusions. Then --

FIFIELD (CONT’D)
Hey. Don’t move.

Millburn TENSES. Nervous --

MILLBURN
What do you mean “Don’t move?” What’s --!?!

FIFIELD
-- Just calm down.

Fifield crosses over to him, gently reaches behind Millburn’s head and DAMN -- Carefully removes an AWFULLY BIG CENTIPEDE. 

MILLBURN
JESUS -- Get it off me!

Fifield holds it up -- Christ -- It’s at least TWO FEET LONG.  THICK. It’s head looks like a HAMMERHEAD SHARK. The centipede glistens in the liquid from the MUCK at their feet -- muck from the broken AMPULES.

FIFIELD
She’s a big one huh? Must’ve been drinking the soup we’re standing in.

MILLBURN
Just get rid of it.

FIFIELD
Shhhh. I think she likes you.

Fifield turns the Centipede towards Millburn, LAUGHING --

FIFIELD (CONT’D)
C’mon. Give her a kiss --

MILLBURN
-- Goddammit, put it d--

-- AND JESUS IT HAPPENS FAST. In a SECOND, The centipede SHOOTS onto Millburn’s ARM -- COILS ITSELF AROUND all the way up to His SHOULDER.

FIFIELD
What the...?

MILLBURN
-- OH GOD GET IT OFF!!!!

Fifield is suddenly no longer stoned. He reaches forward, digs his hands into the centipede, but --

IT REARS IT’S HEAD -- HISSES LIKE A COBRA! Fifield steps back, FREAKED THE FUCK OUT as Millburn STUMBLES BACKWARDS, CLAWING AT THE CENTIPEDE BUT --

Now’s it’s JAWS UNHINGE LIKE AN ANACONDA -- It’s mouth wraps around Millburn’s HAND AND WRIST as the rest of it’s SEGMENTS abruptly LOCK DOWN AND TIGHTEN --

MILLBURN
AHHHHH! MY ARM!!!! IT’S CRUSHING MY ARM!

A NOOBS GUIDE TO PROMETHEUS

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Hello newcomers and elder comers who still question questions from the films questions.
I have brought it upon myself to answer the questions to the film you question because the questions that were questioned doesn't answer your questions.
So any newcomers please read the answers. I have selected the answers from listening to Ridley Scott, Damon Lindelof and Jon Spahits plus many of the answers are common knowledge if you have a brain.

First of all if you have trouble reading the questions are asked and answered by Sean Connery linked below.


Q/A with sean connery and a Hick noob.

Q/ Is it the planet Earth shown in the beginning?
A/ Yes and No my son. In Jon Spaihts script yes but Damon Lindelof and Ridley decided to keep it ambiguous. These beings could have seeded life in hundreds if not thousands or millions of worlds. Plus take note that the landscape seen at the beginning looks exactly like the landscape seen in LV-223 near the end if you look closely. Who knows.

Q/ What is the Engineer doing?
A/ The Engineer is selected to sacrifice his body by drinking an Alien substance that disintegrates his body and destroys his cells creating a cloud of mutating cells to be spread out all over the primordial rocks, Algae and eventually into the water and the mutating cells then reform and create the basis of life.

Q/ But why is he doing it? why create life?
A/ Why did the scientists in Scotland create and clone Dolly the sheep? Why do scientists clone rats, mice and frogs? why did Weyland create androids? there is no purpose for us to do so. It just feels good and it is a major EGO boost to play god and to be worshipped. These are alien beings who most likely think way different than we do.

Q/ The cave paintings in the Isle of Skye. Why did the Engineers paint this and why is it an invitation when it is revealed they wanted to kill us?
A/ It is unknown but heavily hinted that it wasn't actually the humans who drew this. Some of their enslaved humans could have easily witnessed their technology such as the Orrery star map or another theory is that humans may have been brought to LV-223 and made to build temples for the engineers such as the dome pyramid. If your an advanced god like species why build them yourself when you can get some little dumb humans to do it. After all the entire history of humans has been to follow and worship but not lead.

Q/ If Shaw is in Cryostat's then how can she dream?
A/ Well junior. It's because the brain is a muscle and it needs exercise no matter how frozen it is. So scientists in the future developed an idea to extract different types of dreams from an individual and they would replay them over and over again in that persons brain as they slept. 

Q/ But that's unrealistic
A/ Well that's because it's the future ya dumb bastard. It's Science Fiction junior!

Q/ Why wasn't David in Cryo?
A/ That is because he's a Robot and has no need for it. His main priorities was to look after the ship and more importantly Peter Weyland and finally to study Charlie Holloway's thesis on the Engineers by learning every known ancient language on Earth in a hope of being able to communicating with them.

Q/ The Weyland speech. Why is he pretending to be dead?
A/ He's not junior. No one ever said he was dead. Weyland recorded the video before they set out and there were fears he could have died whilst frozen. Vickers and David just never told anyone because it's none of their business. 

Q/ Why didn't they recon or send drones to survey the planet before entering it?
A/ Maybe they did but it would just slow down the pacing.

Q/ Why didn't they take weapons with them with their first trip out?
A/ So they would take weapons to meet god? bitch you crazy

Q/ Why did they take their helmets off?
A/ Because it was safe to do so. I guess it just represents how cocksure we humans are by trusting out own technology.

Q/ How did David know how to work their panels?
A/ Because he's more intelligent than us and studied their language by breaking down all known ancient languages. Plus he was curious and touched everything.

Q/ Where did the ladder come from?
A/ One of the crew members had it with them on entering the pyramid.

Q/ What where the Engineers running from and what happened to them? 
A/ We do not know. Perhaps a mutated comrade? maybe their was also a cure at the other side of that door. There may have been an outbreak on the planet. 

Q/ When the door slammed shut why didn't it just crush the engineer's head instead of decapitating it?
A/ If you pay attention closely junior you'll notice that the door is actually thin and before you ask the environment inside the temple room was perfect enough to preserve the head plus it was inside a helmet. An alien helmet mind you

Q/ What is the head monument and the Vases?
A/ We humans have monuments of ourselves and prophets and gods. Maybe this is the same case regarding the engineers. The Vases contain a dark liquid which may or may not be the exact same liquid from the beginning. 

Q/ Where did the worms come from?
A/ They are actually explained in the Commentary by Jon Spaihts and Damon Lindelof. The worms are indigenous to the planet so are in actual fact the first Alien life forms they discover which I believe will be in a deleted scene. Milburn was more excited than any of the rest of the group at seeing it.

Q/ What was that large mural all about and what was that green crystal?
A/ Again this is not explained. Maybe a similar scenario happened to couple of engineers that happened to Shaw and Holloway. Maybe an Xeno type creature was eventually created from it at one time in the history of the engineers.

Q/ What was the Mural on the ceiling all about?
A/ When we first see it the mural of a tall being touching a life form seems to be neutral as if in a God creation theme but it then transforms into a more Hostile threatening pose. One is life and one is Death.

Q/ Was the storm caused by the Engineer's technology?
A/ It is strongly hinted that it could have been but Ridley Scott said it's a large sand storm with winds up to 200MPH so I guess it's natural.

Q/ Why did they take the head with them and why didn't they just leave it and come back for it later?
A/ Well because they destroyed the temples atmosphere so the head may have been effected by this and rotted in the space of hours like the 'ice man' when it defrosted. Plus I guess the excitement of finding a preserved GOD took over mind and thought. 

Q/ why where they in a rush to talk to this being?
A/ Because in a deleted scene showed how Shaw was in a hurry and wanted answers and this was greatly protested by others but Shaw was in charge of their findings remember so she wins. 

Q/ How did Fifield and Millburn manage to get left behind and lost?
A/ Well junior it's because they had no map with them and Janek probably thought they were with the others and the others were only in the temple for 5 minutes before leaving. As the rover vehicle left the crew thought that fifield and millburn were on board.

Q/ How could David interact with Weyland if Weyland was dreaming? and what were they talking about?
A/ David can enter people's dreams or modified dreams. In the dream which was cut out of the film Weyland was a young man surrounded by young women. He discussed the mission with Weyland explaining it was failure and he found no answer to making Weyland immortal or younger and Weyland demanded that David try harder and find out if any technology left behind by the engineers could make his ambition happen.

Q/ Why did David spike Holloways drink?
A/ Davids objective was to help Weyland find an answer to becoming young again or immortal and decided to test out this liquid on a guinea pig to see if this liquid would answer his objective. In this case Holloway was the guinea pig. Because David is a robot this allows him to carry out objectives that might be considered unethical.

Q/ Why were the engineers stacked up like that and what were those holes?
A/ We do not know. It is hinted the last remaining survivor (last engineer) went through a Ripley style scenario and before going into cryo it stacked and piled its dead comrades. We simply do not know this answer and it is kept mysterious and frightening. The holes could either have came from the last engineer killing its comrades to quarantine or stop infection or the infected engineers exploded from inside their suits hence the holes.

Q/ Is Vickers a robot?
A/ No she is not. The reason Janek asks this is because with so many robots and because Vickers and David look so much alike so there is a kind of mistrust with the corporation. And if your going to ask me why they look the same I'll answer that too. Weyland made David look like himself and Vickers is his daughter so of course she'll look like David.

Q/ When Holloway has sex with shaw. Is it his saliva that then infects and mutates the food she was eating hence why it looks like an octopus or was it his sperm that mutated inside her?
A/ The food Shaw ate did not determine what she gave birth to. She was infected directly by Holloway. She was eating noodles, not squid or sushi, as stated here by Damon: http://i.imgur.com/BCx7H.jpg

Q/ Is that snake thing a proto-chest burster? and why is Millburn acting like an idiot? and what happened to fifield and why didnt he just explode like the engineers?
A/ No! It's just an evolution of the worms that you saw earlier. Millburn obviously connected the dots and knew it was the worms he was excited about earlier and because its a worm he immediately thinks its not dangerous as worms are not predators. Plus I believe it was said in one of the commentaries that in a non filmed sequence, Millburn got stoned alongside Fifield before this. The worm Isn't a killer, worms need warmth to survive and the human body is obviously warm and the temple is below freezing so it makes sense that it tried to get into his suit. It's acid blood spray's over Fifields gorilla glass helmet turning into a mask and he falls into the pool of black liquid. The pool wasn't deep enough for him to drown in so he mutated like the worm. It appears this liquid mutates the exterior of what it touches but disintegrates the interior of whatever it touches.  

Q/Was Holloway mutating or disintegrating? and why wouldn't Vickers let him on board?
A/ He was disintegrating but slower than the engineer from the beginning of the film. The sacrificial engineer drunk a lot of the liquid whereas Holloway only drunk just a droplet.  Because she didn't want any infection coming on to the ship despite any kind of advancement in treatment. This is an alien disease and who knows what its capable of 

Q/ Why didn't the 2 crew members chase Shaw after she beat them and ran away?
A/ Because they were badly knocked out and probably in pain. The Prometheus is a fricken large ship with a maze of corridors. It's not like Shaw just ran around the corner. 

Q/ Why was the MEDpod calibrated only for men? 
A/ I've heard noobs and boobs say this before. But don't worry Bambie I'll set you right. It's actually for Peter Weyland.

Q/ How come there's characters shooting at Fifield and the same characters are in the room with a recently woken up Weyland at the same time? And it was clearly a woman driving the Rover that ran over the mutated Fifield.
A/ Because it was originally shot like this junior. Shaw gets a C-section, discovers Weyland, they all suit up and head down to the cargo bay via elevator and at the same time Janek discovers Fifield outside. As Fifield tears through the crew, Weyland is rushed into the Rover as the fight goes on. As the driver is killed by a hatchet before he enters the Rover Shaw climbs in the drivers side. Janek and his pilots come out and burn it and Shaw runs him over. They take a few minutes of R&R and Shaw has her speech with Janek.

Q/ Why didn't the engineer speak back to the humans?
A/ He actually did and you can tell the scene was cut and edited as David and Weyland constantly change positions as does the Engineer. But it was ready to set out to kill us all so why would it have a conversation with the species it is about to kill?

Q/ Why wasn't the engineers going to use hi-tech weapons on us? Aren't they aware of our weaponry?
A/ Because Junior 2,000 years ago we fought with swords and still thought the world was flat.

Q/ Why where they wanting to destroy us anyway?
A/ There are several theories given by Ridley and the writers and in clues in the film. They are superior advanced beings and maybe they saw that we were becoming smart and didn't want any future rivals. They probably didn't like the way we grew up in the evolutionary cycle and didn't like the fact we started worshipping false gods and not them and forgot about them. Or we were just an experiment gone wrong and wanted to clear our planet to make way for the next step in evolution.

Q/ Why did Janek just play kamakazi with the Juggernaut without thinking about it?
A/ Let's say your on a small submarine with no weapons and you find a large nuclear submarine in the Ocean and it is currently ascending the Ocean towards the surface to launch a 50 megaton bomb on your home city where your family are. Would you waste time trying to contact your government; by that time it would be too late or would you save your family and millions of lives by colliding with it thus saving everyone? Same thing happened here Junior

Q/ Why didn't Vickers and Shaw run sideways?
A/ You really are a bit derpish junior. They never stood still and stared at the thing and calculated where it would exactly crash. They just did what everyone would do, RUN!! they ran like Forrest Gump and with exploding Debris crashing all around them the adrenaline would take over. Plus the scene was mostly done in slow motion. It only took 8-11 seconds for it to fall and tip over. When it did shaw fell and because of that she was able to see the juggernaut's direction. Vickers however never looked behind her and it was too late. 

Q/ Why did the engineer come back for Shaw and not just get into another craft and take off?
A/ Because we managed to take down one of it's crafts. It's not going to leave without making sure any threat is gone. 

Q/ Is the trillobite that impregnated the engineer the first Facehugger?
A/ No. The events of Alien would have happened even if the events of Prometheus never happened meaning the Xenomorph eggs were around thousands of years before hand.

Q/ Why is Shaw going to the engineers home world instead of our own home world? 
A/ She has nothing left except her faith. Everything she has ever known has died and all she has left is her painful memories and her questions.

Q/ Was that a queen Xenomorph has exploded from the engineer? and why was the engineers body not anywhere near the Trillobite? and why was the lights going on and off? 
A/ It isn't an Xenomorph. It's just a strange looking creature. It's more humanoid and organic looking than the Xeno and has five human like fingers. Like Kane the engineer could have woken up and wondered off before collapsing followed by the chest burst. We don't know how long it has been since the trillobite face raped him. The Trillobite could have been feeding him air for months who knows or even years. by the time of the chest burst maybe the power to the ship was failing. 

Q/ Is this a prequel to alien?
A/ No. A prequel means a series of events that lead directly to the start of or cause the beginning of an original story. Think of the Alien Cannon as the letter 'T'. The beginning of Alien is the path to the right but Prometheus goes left into new uncharted waters or space should I say.

Q/ So this is definitely not the same planet or spaceship or space jockey/engineer from Alien?
A/ No. Nothing to do with the plot of Alien. But maybe the ship in Alien was the only engineer ship that took off on its course to destroy Earth but something happened causing a facehugger to attack the engineer during it's journey. Or perhaps this incident happened long before they decided to wipe out the Earth and our species.

Q/ So Peter Weyland. Is he a relative to the Weyland character from AVP?
A/ No. Alien VS predator is not part of the alien universe and no matter how many references the predator films degrade themselves with will make any difference.

Q/ But AVP. . . 
A/ Fuck off




Father Figure motif and where to go in the sequel

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Can I say how much I LOVE the movie Prometheus? I love all the Alien films, and Prometheus was excellent way to prequel it and start its own mythos different from it. It's brilliant. 

But I basically think it's all about one thing:

Dysfunctional relationships with your parents.

In that sense, I guess, it's a great throw-back to the golden era of Freudian Film-Making.

I think it accomplishes this theme on many levels with many overlapping metaphors. The most obvious of which is the whole God complex. But there's also Shaw's relationship to her father, and how the relates to God and the Engineers. There's Weyland's god-complex and how he abandoned his daughter Vickers and created his android-son David. David also shows a much more childish and stoic view to his creates since he is well aware of their hubris and lack of intent in his creation. And that's just scratching the surface.

I think two scenes really encapsulate this film perfectly, the scene where David poisons Holloway at the pool table, and the final scene where Shaw and David's head are talking.

The pool-table scene is great. Pool has traditionally been a metaphor for causality, how a chain of events is related from one cause to another. This is perfect since David starts the chain of events by infecting Holloway who in turn impregnates the sterile Shaw who rips out the Cthulu face-hugger thing that then in turn implants the Deacon alien into the Engineer through its ovipositor. That whole chain of creation events parallels the creation sequences that the Engineers (being GENETIC ENGINEERS) started by their viral reprogramming which set up humanity in the introductory Promethean event, and also in the biogenesis in the urn-room.

More pointedly, however, in the pool-table scene is the discussion between David and Holloway. David asks Holloway why his species created him, to which Holloway dumbly answers, "Because we could." To which David rightly assesses how disappointing that would be for Holloway to hear from his makers. Holloway laughs in a dismissing way then inadvertently gives David permission to infect him by saying he'd do anything to get the answers.

This theme is re-iterated when David and Shaw are talking at the end. Shaw wants to go to the Engineer's home world. She says she wants to know why it was the Engineers became disappointed with humanity. David CORRECTLY answers that it's irrelevant. Shaw says it's not. She hasn't learned at all from this whole event - her hubris and insecurity in her own self worth and the worth of humanity led her and the crew to this whole mess. She was the one that convinced Weyland that the Engineers had answers to life's most important questions, and she's directly and indirectly responsible for the whole mess that erupts. It's her pride and lack of belief IN HERSELF that is the downfall of everyone. It is her childish need to find meaning in something external to herself that is her undoing. And yet she never learns (thus, setting us up for a potentially AMAZING sequel in which she will finally learn - the movie was rightly criticized for its lack of resolution so it's hoped that the sequel or the trilogy will eventually resolve this by having her realize that what matters is inside and that we create our own meaning). 

The purpose of life is to live without appeal. To stop seeking the answers outside ourselves and to BECOME the solution. To create our lives as a self-evidently worthy. Shaw cannot get over the pain of losing her father before she felt was the right time - so she cannot realize her own self-worth. BRILLIANT psycho-analysis built into this film. SO good.

While the film makes obvious allusions to the Abrahamic eschatology, it is more so based around the Greek (and Mayan) myths of a creator-God that creates through self-annhilation or a giving up of one's self. In the ancient Babylonian myths, the gods create the world and humanity out of the primal divinities that come before them. But in Mayan mythology Father-God creates the world and humanity by sacrificing himself thus letting his own body be the womb of creation. The introduction mirrors this perfectly.

I think that this film is trying to reflect the journey of humanity from these ancient myths to the post-modern age by recreating the ancient myths. By focusing on the myth that, as has been said, "Self-creation is annihilation of self," the message of Kierkegaard, Nietzsche, Camus, and the Existentialists who stole all their ideas from those three (lol, sorry, I just think that Existentialism is pathetic and NOTHING compared to those three thinkers, even though people who don't know anything tend to group those three into the Existentialists when they obviously and self-admittedly [in the case of Camus] are NOT Existentialists). Kierkegaard called for the necessity of the "Leap of Faith", Nietzsche likewise called for the "Re-evaluation of all values", the "Twilight of the Idols", and the over-coming of everything that has made you. Camus, for his part, beckoned us to "live without appeal" and to accept the Absurdity of life - that our search for meaning will NEVER find concrete meaning in the outside world. 

Take all these perfect truths together and you see the need for humanity to rise above the ignorance and insecurity of our heritage and embrace the fact that we will NEVER have an APPEAL to meaning, and that, in spite of that, we can and should still live a happy and fulfilling life. One can only do that by embracing the Absurd, re-evaluating all values, taking the leap of faith, and over-coming our selfhood and recreating ourselves in a state of eternal becoming. The process of life and recreation is shown in a physical form with the Chain of Creation we mentioned early. This is proof that attempts at eugenics are wrong. The process of creation is an INTERNAL process. Most people don't realize that Nietzsche was the absolute antithesis of Hitler and that Hitler got EVERYTHING wrong about Nietzsche. The movie makes this point very poetically. Although the Engineers judged us as failures, we MUST judged THEM as failures! They went about things the wrong way. Shaw never realizes this, but WE can. Self-creation is annihilation of self. We must over-come OURSELVES. This is a spiritual process. Not a physical process. SPIRITUAL. It is an INTERNAL process of mastery over OURSELVES not an external process of mastery of the world or society or the Other or any other bullshit. We must wage war on ourselves. We must destroy ourselves. We must recreate ourselves. For in the end - WE are our own Gods. God was created in OUR image. And we must overcome even God.

Maybe I'm reading too far into this, maybe not. But I hope that the next film and the third film if there is one, take this into account and head in this direction. There is meaning and purpose in life. We are here for a reason. But that meaning, that purpose, that reason, is not an external fact to be discovered and known. It is an internal truth to be realized and manifested. And we have the potential to do it. The question is - do we have the will?

jon spaihts script

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I haven't been on here for about a year and I imagine this subject is already in the forum but it probably would have take a while to find it. Prometheus left me with a bad taste in my mouth and I'm still pretty bitter, even worse after having read the Spaihts script and wondering why the hell they didn't use more of that.   The ultraviolet control panels invisible to the human eye were absolutely brilliant and they replace that with a fucking FLUTE.  The waking of the engineer was great with the imagery he used (emerging from a grotesque flower) and the walls coming alive at his command.  Sure it would have involved more CGI but honestly when used in conjunction with good storytelling it would have been just fine.  The problem with CGI is it is used in place of good storytelling far too often.  My chief complaint with the original script is a very small one, the scarab DNA syringes in the beginning scene.  Sure they were used because the Egyptians held them as tools of the gods or whatever but its just too lame.  The facehuggers had a little too much face time (lol) but they were not necessary and could have been modified into something fresh.  All in all Spaihts got screwed badly and the movie suffered greatly because of it.

Prometheus spawned from one of the most unsettling scenes in sci fi history (space jockey) and yet somehow the finished product was neither frightening nor awe inspiring. Spending way too much time on symbolism and tying into ancient civilizations it forgot to make the characters believable or even likable, the creatures scary and the plot coherent.

What were they running from?

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The Holographs of the engineers running in the tunnel, something got them spooked big time and I thought i saw one of them turn around as if they were def being chased by something.....

The Pinocchio Code

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or,
Fairy Tale Elements in Prometheus!image

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K, so this analysis was so hard to put together that I almost gave up a few times, but hopefully it's coherent now. I know some people won't like it, but please hold your tomatoes until the end LoL. It started out as an old comment of mine on the War between Gods and Bloodlines thread, but it was a little off-topic over there, and I wanted to expand on the different fairy tale motifs I noticed throughout the film. So here they are, beginning with:


I. Pinocchio

This tale was referenced in the poisoning scene w/Holloway, but there doesn't seem to be anything much to it, since David is such a far cry from the version most people are familiar with (Disney's classic). However, a look back at the original fairy telling by Carlo Collodi in 1883 revealed a completely different Pinocchio:
 
From Wikipedia:
"In the original novel, Pinocchio is a cold, rude, ungrateful, inhuman creature that often repels sympathy and only learns his lessons by means of brutal torture."

At least, I hope he learned a lesson...                               Engineers = Bad! LoL
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From another article, Bad Things Happen to Bad Children about Disney's adaptation: 
Early in the project, in fact, Disney became so frustrated with Collodi’s story that he halted production. It was unsuitable for children, Disney concluded: Pinocchio was too cocky, too much of a wiseguy, and too puppetlike to be sympathetic. Finally a compromise was reached. Pinocchio’s wish would be fulfilled from the start. He would not be depicted as a puppet after all but as a real boy, and a gentle, winsome one at that.

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This is much like the changes we see going from Spaihts' to Lindelof's characterization, where the final version of David is not as cold and ruthless as the original. In the opening scenes of Prometheus, and in the viral ad as well, he is depicted as gentle and winsome (Weyland’s website describes him as “naturally mannerly and gracious”). I also considered the various similarities to David from Kubrick-Spielberg’s A.I. (which more or less follows the Disney narrative), and decided I should watch Disney's Pinocchio again, just to see how much RS/DL might have borrowed from it. 

Here's what I found relevant: 

A. David's viral video oddly reminiscent of Pinocchio's first stage performance. In the Disney movie Pinocchio joins Stromboli's Puppet Show and becomes the main attraction. In Prometheus, Weyland Industries debuts David 8 - the most advanced android ever created. David & Pinocchio introduce themselves to the public and show off their special abilities:





B. LV-223 as Pleasure Island

You don't understand. This place isn't what we thought it was.
I was wrong! We were SO wrong!
We must leave!

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Pleasure Island is a cursed amusement park owned and operated by The Coachman, who made a fortune from his crooked deeds.... Pleasure Island is accessed by ferry. It is implied to be an illegal place as hinted by J. Worthington Foulfellow. Apparently, the boys can do whatever they pleased on the island, such as smoking, drinking alcohol, fighting, wrecking the place and other deeds that good children wouldn't do. The boys were also free of the law and other adults or teenagers who could stop them from being naughty. However, unknown to the boys, Pleasure Island in truth actually serves as a trap...

The description of the boys reminded me of Meshuggah's analysis of gigantomachy on War between Gods & Bloodlines (the offspring of fallen angels & mortal humans). I may be out on a limb, but read & see if you agree:

Children who become giants or rulers. Godly men, Kings, etc. These ‘giants’ are renowned for their voracious appetites and brutality [….] Thus, symbolically the Giants represent ‘uncilivized’ peoples, identified above all for their violence [....] The rebel engineers inverted the ideals of moderation/self-control, law and order and thus they are the very forbears of excess, lawlessness and disorder and their bloodline persisted unabated throughout the ages
culminating in a Godly figure like Weyland himself. Their appetites know no
limits; violating the sacred limits of life and death, they ultimately destroy themselves.

In both cases, you have these children behaving badly, but their behavior goes unpunished by this ominous, shadowy authority figure who watches from afar. Their self-destruction is inevitable, and it’s part of some greater scheme that they’re completely unaware of.

From Wikipedia:
Meanwhile, Honest John and Gideon meet up with the sinister Coachman in a local tavern and boast of their success luring Pinocchio away. Impressed by their story, the Coachman tells them he has a business of "collecting stupid little boys" and taking them to Pleasure Island.


So this is the part in the movie when I started getting goosebumps. This scene is the lead-in to the Pleasure Island sequence, and I was starting to see how the pieces fit together:

1. Honest John & Gideon (or Present-Day Coachmen)

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If David is our Pinocchio, then I think Weyland & Vickers fit the bill of Honest John & Gideon (in the picture above, they are “putting on an act” – compare this to Honest John’s song “An Actor’s Life for Me”). These two are "partners in crime" who are eager to earn some money by following the Coachman’s instructions (star maps). They are part of his game of deception. Alternatively, Weyland can be seen as a present-day Coachman -- running the business, collecting everyone on a ship, and heading off to a faraway place – being sure to keep them completely ignorant ( or "stupid") of the true agenda. (Vickers & David take on the roles of Honest John & Gideon).

The crew as the "stupid little boys"...
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And the USCSS Prometheus as the stage coach or ferry (meme version seemed fitting lol)

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2. Ancient Coachmen


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If we maintain Weyland & Vickers as Honest John & Gideon, we can cast the Engineers as the sinister Coachmen, with LV-223 as Pleasure Island, and the black goo as the island's terrible curse. If Pleasure Island was a trap set up by the Coachman, then perhaps the star maps are depictions of the Engineers luring the “faithful” into a trap with a the false promise of Paradise (perhaps for experimentation with the goo = the Coachman’s racket) This would echo what would happen in the future with Shaw, trusting that the giant beings in the paintings & engravings were friendly, and happily travelling to the wonderful place they were pointing to in the sky.

Now, it’s not specified whether the star maps were given to each culture openly, or if they were secret teachings during their time, but my guess is that perhaps the Engineers were being selective in who they taught about lv-223. It might be that certain individuals had qualities they needed in order to develop the goo (that’s really a wild guess, but it might explain why the effects of the goo seem to vary from one person to the next…)


C. is for Consequences 

Pleasure Island is a metaphor for the “profane life” characterized by ignorance, the search for instant gratification and the satisfaction of the one’s lowest impulses ~ The Esoteric Interpretation of Pinocchio

Ignorance: Charlie is ignorant of the mission’s true agenda.
The Search for Instant Gratification: “What we hoped to achieve was to meet our makers. To get answers.”
Satisfaction of the one’s lowest impulses: Sex & Alcohol

Also from Meshuggah in War Between Gods & Bloodlines:  
Clearly, we can see that the results of the black goo differ only in how it is applied (....) When applied via sex and by any other means other than self-sacrifice, aka Sin, we get xenomorphic beasts, serpents and death...
...and jackasses image
Deja Vu :O
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"Huh? What the-"
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"What's going on?!"
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"AAAHHHHH!!!!"
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"I've been double crossed! Help! Help!"
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"MAMA!! MAMA!!!" [xenomoorf]


And what happens to Pinocchio?

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In Disney's movie, the curse of Pleasure Island was so powerful that Pinocchio's wooden form was partly morphed into a real donkey. In Prometheus, David 8 could not be physically harmed by the goo, but you could argue that the experience of the mission warped him psychologically (affected his programming). The benign personality we knew from the beginning, had (partly ;) ) changed into something more ambiguous & dangerous by the end of the film. 

D. In the Belly of the Beast…



Geppetto:“Get out? Oh no no son, I’ve tried every way”.
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“Why I even built a raft.”

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Pinocchio: “A raft? That’s it! We’ll take the raft, and when the whale opens his mouth--“
Geppetto: “Hm? Oh no, no, no… now listen son:"

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"He only opens his mouth when he’s eating. Then everything comes in! Nothing goes out...”
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Pinocchio: “A fire! That’s it! A great big fire! Lots of smoke! We’ll make him sneeze!”

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Geppeto: “Make him sneeze?                                                     Oooh – that will make him mad!” 

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“LOOK OUT! LOOK OUT!”

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E. Jiminy Cricket as a metaphor for Jesus Christ

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JC represents conscience, and has a ubiquitous presence throughout the film. Captain Janek has the same initials (CJ/JC), sets up the Christmas tree in the lounge, and ultimately sacrifices himself to save mankind/planet earth. Holloway's cross tattoo is like the proverbial "angel on your shoulder", he toys w/the little baby Jesus ornament at the pool table (just like Lampwick does with Jiminy, right before his transformation), and also chooses a sacrificial death for the sake of the crew. JC also shows up in the form of Shaw’s cross, which passes to David temporarily before she recovers it at the end. In the Disney movie, Pinocchio must prove himself to be "brave, truthful, and unselfish" before he can become a real boy, and Jiminy is instrumental in helping him acquire those virtues.

Moving on to another tale:

Did anyone get the 'distance from earth' at the beginning?

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I am trying to figure out how many light years this system was from earth, and they indicated it, but I didn't get the exact number.  I think it was supposed to be an intergalactic mission, but the number alluded to a system within our own Milky Way.  Just curious.  The distance was in kilomieters and it was something x 10^14 if I remember correctly.  Thanks!

Watched it enough times that...

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... I was watching Harry Brown and, well, not really watching it but, it was playing on in the background whilst I was doing a report and I heard a voice SO familiar that I had to break from work and rewind the film some.  Saw the character, backed up again, did some more concentrated listening until it finally dawned on me;  give the bloke a mohawk and you got yourself a Fifield.  

That's how many times I've seen Prometheus.  
When an actor I'm not so familiar with is stuck in my head....

Sean Young says she should have had Charlize Theron's role in Prometheus

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http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/news/a505450/sean-young-i-should-have-had-charlize-therons-prometheus-role.html?rss
Sean Young has said that she would have made a better Meredith Vickers in Prometheus than Charlize Theron.

The actress suggested that the Oscar-winning star looked "bored" in the sci-fi film and prevented her from a potential reunion with her Blade Runner director Ridley Scott.

"I am going to say this on the record - why in the hell does Ridley Scott have Charlize Theron in that part instead of me?" she told ET.

"It's like she was bored out of her mind - you can see it - and it's like, 'Oh my god!' That would have been really good for me, right?

"It would have been a nod to people who like Blade Runner, it would have been like, 'See, I'm using Sean again', right? Nah."

Young, who has new horror film Jug Face opening in cinemas today (August 9), recently said that "everybody should boycott" the Blade Runner sequel if she is not involved.


I agree! Ridley forgets where he came from!

"There is nothing in the desert and no man needs nothing." Significance?

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This is the only memorable David line that hasn't been analyzed. 
But to me it seems extremely important to help understand David's motives. 
Theories please?  What does this indicate about David's motives and subsequent actions...

Raëlism

Prometheus Ampule - movie replica

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Hi everyone! my name is Pablo and im from Spain.
i have made a replica of the prometheus ampule im offering it at 225€ + shipping and its includes the urn painted and the pedestal based on the floor of the space jockey´s chamber. 

If we reach the number of 10 sold ampules wi will make the inner organic canister and the bottles with the blackness inside so if anyone like it and wanna get one contact us, we accept paypal and we ship worldwide. 

hope you enjoy it! 
cheers, 
Pablo.

More images HERE.

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"Truck drivers of the Apocalypse" - Interview with Ian Whyte

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In an interview with Ian Whyte, the 7 foot actor that played the engineer states, "Someone on the crew, (I forget exactly who) described them absolutely perfectly as “Truck drivers of the apocalypse!” They serve a higher power/intelligence, unnamed and unknown."

Perhaps the sequel will delve into who exactly they work for. What lives in Paradise? Who's pulling the strings?

Communications in the Prometheus/Alien universe?

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Hey guys, I hope someone can help me with this idea I'm working on:

I'm having to type up my own background story for the Engies, and I'm stuck on the part where the war in heaven ends abruptly. I decided it should be that there was some kind of EMP-like effect that knocked out their communication systems during the war, and brought it to a screeching halt (also to explain why we haven't detected their presence since we began exploring space, etc.)

Anyway, I've heard about "subspace" from the Star Trek universe, but I'm not really knowledgeable about that either (in fact, I don't even know how shit works in the real world lol :)) this is what happens when a muggle tries to write a sci-fi story!) 

Anyway, the bf said that lots of sci fi stories have some version of a hyperspace that allows for ftl travel &/or ftl communication, but he didn't elaborate & I don't know how it works in the Ridleyverse  :-/  (is it ever specified? How about the warning signal coming from the derelict in Alien, and the one Shaw sends out at the end of Prometheus - would you say those were radio or "subspace" or something else?)  

Any info would be greatly appreciated! <3

Why the final battle scene should be added to special edition

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It appears other people want this scene to be included also. Here is my list for why the final battle scene should be added to the special edition;

1. Rapace is obviously fit enough to perform this extended battle (maybe the editor should have a go at light sparring with her)
2. The Engineer is stunned by her character (eg her challenge before Weyland), and human capacity in general (eg life boat video)
3. The gods are not what they were made out to be
4. The Engineer can take his time (he knows there are other ships)
5. There is direct evidence Shaw can survive the extended battle: she survives a similar throw earlier in the movie (during the storm) - and the back pack serves as some degree of cushion
6. The ending seems a little premature/rushed otherwise
7. It better explains her relaxed/confident/forgiving attitude with David
8. It better explains her laying on the ground and giving up
9. It better explains her desire to find them / "go where they came from" (she feels she has earnt the right)
10. It better explains her clever idea of releasing the body hugger upon the engineer
11. It adds some traditional horror to the film
12. It adds some purpose for the axe
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