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Alien Origins

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Feel free to critique this presentation on the origins of the xenomorph. Note the original design was created by Meshuggah, and key additions provided by Doomtrain (with additional features confirmation from MadEye).

See the Direct Prometheus-Alien Connection thread for its original synthesis, along with the original worm theory.
 

PROMETHEUS 1 YEAR ANNIVERSARY

The Saucer Ship

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I was just think'in, I wonder what the inside of the Saucer Ship looked like and what the on goings are within it. I personally think it looks like the Juggernaut ship only more advance with tech. I think the elders are constantly in a meeting of sorts. I could be way wrong however, what do you all think?

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NECA Holographic Engineers

The Engineers seeded many planets right?

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So where are all of these other lifeforms? 

Also how did they seed them? Presumably in the same way as the sacrifice engineer. So that implies that there should be human life on other planets as well. 

Ridley Scott: "Engineers... they are dark angels"

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Ridley Scott shares his thoughts on a sequel, who the Engineers really are, religion, spirituality, and Jesus Christ who the director suggests might have been an… Engineer!

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Movies.com: Thank you, first, for giving us a film that we need to contemplate and discuss and argue about for days without ever really coming close to answering all that it asks. It feels like it has been too long before we’ve been treated to a meal such as this.
 
Ridley Scott: Thank Christ! I think that’s great.
 
Movies.com: The film asks very big questions about where we come from as a species, and where we go when we die. It’s not possible to deliver concrete answers, but I’m hoping you can tell me how, in the planning stages of the script and story, you came to decide which open-ended, philosophical questions you would at the very least attempt to answer definitively.
 
RS: Well, from the very beginning, I was working from a premise that lent itself to a sequel. I really don’t want to meet God in the first one. I want to leave it open to [Noomi Rapace’s character, Dr. Elizabeth Shaw] saying, “I don’t want to go back to where I came from. I want to go where they came from.”
 
Movies.com: So that was always going to be the natural ending for this film?
 
RS: Totally. And because they’re such aggressive f**kers … and who wouldn’t describe them that way, considering their brilliance in making dreadful devices and weapons that would make our chemical warfare look ridiculous? So I always had it in there that the God-like creature that you will see actually is not so nice, and is certainly not God. As she says, “This is not what I thought it was going to be, and I think we should get the Hell out of here or there won’t be any place to go back to.”
 
That’s not necessarily planted in the ground at the tail end of the third act, but I knew that’s kind of where we should go, because if we’ve opened up this door -- which I hope we have because I certainly would like to do another one – I’d love to explore where the hell [Dr. Shaw] goes next and what does she do when she gets there, because if it is paradise, paradise can not be what you think it is. Paradise has a connotation of being extremely sinister and ominous.
 
Movies.com: We’re not going to get a slow build in this second film, then. These guys are volatile from the start?
 
RS: In a funny kind of way, if you look at the Engineers, they’re tall and elegant … they are dark angels. If you look at [John Milton’s] Paradise Lost, the guys who have the best time in the story are the dark angels, not God. He goes to all the best nightclubs, he’s better looking, and he gets all of the birds. [Laughs]

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Movies.com: So Milton was one of your influences for the Engineers?
 
RS: That sounds incredibly pretentiously intellectual. But in a funny sort of way, yes. I started off with a title called Paradise. Either rightly or wrongly, we thought that was telling the audience too much. But then with Prometheus – which I thought was bloody well intellectual – that wasn’t my idea. It was Fox’s notion, It came from Tom Rothman, who’s a smart fellow. The more I thought about it, the more I thought it was a good idea. This is about someone who dares and is horribly punished. And besides, do you know something? A little bit of an education at the cinema isn’t such a bad thing.
 
Movies.com: Do you worry that you’ve lost the element of surprise that worked to your advantage with the original Alien? By now, we’ve seen numerous movies in the Alien universe, and like it or not, audiences are coming in with an expectation that deflates tension and suspense. Did you feel the need to pull the audience in to the story in a different fashion this time?
 
RS: I was hoping I had with the fact that you have a sequence at the beginning of the film that is fundamentally creation. It’s a donation, in the sense that the weight and the construction of the DNA of those aliens is way beyond what we can possibly imagine …
 
Movies.com: That is our planet, right?
 
RS: No, it doesn’t have to be. That could be anywhere. That could be a planet anywhere. All he’s doing is acting as a gardener in space. And the plant life, in fact, is the disintegration of himself.
 
If you parallel that idea with other sacrificial elements in history – which are clearly illustrated with the Mayans and the Incas – he would live for one year as a prince, and at the end of that year, he would be taken and donated to the gods in hopes of improving what might happen next year, be it with crops or weather, etcetera.
 
I always think about how often we attribute what has happened to either our invention or memory. A lot of ideas evolve from past histories, but when you look so far back, you wonder, Really? Is there really a connection there?”
 
Then when I jump back, and you put yourself in a situation of a cave painting, you see that someone 32,000 years ago is showing me a little man sitting in the darkness, using a candle light that is fat from a creature he killed and ate. And in the darkness are two or three other family members whose body heat is warming the cave. But he has discovered that from a piece of this black, burnt stick, he has discovered that he can draw pictures on the wall.
 
In essence, you have the first level of emotion and a demonstration of entertainment, right? Because he’s drawing brilliantly on the God damn wall. Now, you put yourself into that context, it’s 100-times bigger than Edison. And people don’t go back to the basics and ask, “Holy shit, what gave him that knowledge, that jolt to not scribble on the wall but draw on it brilliantly?”
 
If you go back and look, a completely underrated film is Quest for Fire. That was one of the most genius, simplistic but incredibly sophisticated notion of what it was. The evolution of that was just fantastic. And that got me sitting back on my ass thinking, “Damn! What a fundamentally massive idea.”

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Movies.com: You throw religion and spirituality into the equation for Prometheus, though, and it almost acts as a hand grenade. We had heard it was scripted that the Engineers were targeting our planet for destruction because we had crucified one of their representatives, and that Jesus Christ might have been an alien. Was that ever considered?

 
RS: We definitely did, and then we thought it was a little too on the nose. But if you look at it as an “our children are misbehaving down there” scenario, there are moments where it looks like we’ve gone out of control, running around with armor and skirts, which of course would be the Roman Empire. And they were given a long run. A thousand years before their disintegration actually started to happen. And you can say, “Lets’ send down one more of our emissaries to see if he can stop it. Guess what? They crucified him.


 

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Trolls attack Damon Lindelof at Star Trek screening

The Nature of the Engineer's Bio-Suits

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One thing that really stood out to me was how the Engineers are the beginning are wearing very primitive loincloth and robes, while the Engineers we see on LV-223 all have this bio-suit that evidently is fused with their body, as in they don't just take it on and off. Obviously there's no answer at this time, but I feel like the nature of this suit is key to understanding the motivations of the Engineer race, and might account for the difference in temperament between the more benevolent Engineers at the beginning with the aggressive one we see at the end.

Thus Spoke Zarathustra

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I'm almost done with this book. After picking it up due to its promotional tie in to the 10.11.12 debacle.....anyone else reading/read this? It's very interesting to correlate the minds of Zarathustra and these Engineers... very fun to read and contemplate over a nice drink and smoke. Just wondering what others on the forum here thought....

Shaw vs Engineer (Deleted scene!)

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I finally saw the deleted version of the Shaw vs Engineer scene:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsOiYMZx4zI

This has terrible picture quality but it seems that the Engineer did not want to kill Shaw and only acted in self defense (Shaw was the first to strike).

What do you think?

Why was some ppl's reaction against Prometheus so intense?

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apologies if this has been explored already in a thread; a cursory search didn't bring anything up.

Just came from youtube and Happy Birthday David 
, reviewing replies to replies i made.  The haters get incredibly abusive.  They are really hurting. Why IS that?  I've already commented elsewhere, but here's one more thought, quoting self from aforementioned youtube comments;

"Prometheus is much more the descendent of Blade Runner than of the Alien films, conceptually.  That's why it doesn't behave like an Alien film and why it disappoints Alien fans. There's more to this than 'plot holes' etc. Maybe the Alien isn't enough of a protagonist for ppl who love to get up close and personal with it.  They needed those slavering jaws and that malign consciousness to underpin everything. And the absence of that felt like bereavement."

interested in what everyone thinks about this.  it's something the director has surely been sussing out.

Digital Helmet?

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When Shaw is lowering David's headless body down from the Juggernaut, is her helmet digital? You can clearly see her hair blowing in the "wind." Is this because that's a digital helmet, or is there a fan in the helmet?

 

When I noticed her hair moving, I thought that the helmet didn't look quite as real as the other shots of actors in helmets - it looks like it could be digital.

Prometheus Comic Book

Reply to Ummester re simulated reality

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The thing that doesn't make any sense about the mistakes in
Prometheus being deliberate (the film is some kind training video or other
representation of real events) are the into and outro.

The Sacrifice Engineer and Deacon occur entirely outside of
human involvement. It could be argued that the Deacon is the only 'real' bit in
the film - footage from the real Prometheus archives or something - but it
still doesn't explain the Sacrifice Engineer.



First, sorry for my tardy reply to your post - I've been alternatively busy and lazy.

The concerns you raise above - that if Prometheus is a simulated reality based on memery implants/memory theft, where does that leave the intro and ending - also bothered me for some time. My answer is similar to the one you came up with - that the deacon scene maybe the "only 'real' bit in the film". The sacrificial space jockey is however inluded - perhaps as a dream implant.

I'll try to explain one of the ways I arrived at this (tentative) conclusion.

My starting point for looking more closely into Prometheus is that the so-called mistakes/things that don't make much sense in the movie are far too numerous (and often just too silly) to just be mistakes. They form part of the clues to the puzzle that is Prometheus (Ridley use of Rubik's cube is an invitation to us to solve the puzzle). I'm not holding up Ridley as infallible. But as one of Hollywood's more talented directors who is re-visiting his career defining Alien movie, you'd have to ask how he could dish up what outwardly appears to be a ameteurish, border line incompetent effort.

The answer as to why all the mistakes is that Ridley didn't make Prometheus. Of course, I mean that in a metorphorical sense. Ridley is using a literary/film device in which the author/director denies authorship saying that he merely recorded events. The events and the film (read simulated reality) was generated by one of the film's characters.

So how and where does Ridley cue the audience of this disclaimer?

It is an allusion to Blade Runner that gives us a clue to Ridley’s denial of authorship. If we look at the beginning of Prometheus (up to the appearance of the sacrificial space jockey) and the ending (excluding the deacon scene), we see four main elements – soaring through clouds, soaring over landscapes, a voice over narration and the happy ending feeling. Wind the clock back 30 years to the ending of BR. We get the same four elements.

Now if there is a scene in Ridley’s career that he would choose as his most disliked it would be the “happy ending” massage he was forced to give the 1982 theatrical release of Blade Runner.  And given most of the shots used in this sequence were off-cuts from Stanley Kubrick's The Shining, then in a much realer sense, this was not Ridley’s work.  The Prometheus beginning/ending – with its aerial shots and sense of flying, the clouds and blue skies, the two main characters in a vehicle, the narrative voice over and the subdued feeling of triumph coupled with uncertainty about the future – is eerily reminiscent of the Blade Runner closer.  Ridley is saying now, as he probably did in 1982, “These shots are not mine”.
 
But Ridley is not only disclaiming ownership of these few scenes. By bookending Prometheus between these two allusions to BR he is also saying that everything in between those opening and closing scenes has little to do with him. It is one or some of the film’s characters who is responsible for most of what we see. So the plot – young scientists on a search for their makers/an old man’s search for immortality – is most likely a fabrication (certainly no scientists on board). To discover what is really happening, we have to dig deep into the subtext. Ridley has supplied plenty of clues.


This interpretation is not just about a disclaimer by Ridley but points to other elements in Prometheus. One is that the film involves memories, which was a major theme in BR. It also shows Ridley's willingless to use allusions to other films to help reveal his movie's underlying plot.

My answer to your question, Ummester - where does the simulated reality actually begin - is not much different to how you saw it. The deacon ending, given it falls outside the BR bookends, is probably an actual event (altho I'm not sure of it's significance).

The sacrificial jockey scene and the Scotland scenes are not part of the simulation but a more likely dream/memory implants - mostly for Shaw's benefit.

The actual simulation kicks in immediately after the power outage and the tilting of the space craft (the sliding billiard balls). The outage occured because a simulation of this size would require enormous electrical power and perhaps the initial surge or plugging the simulation into the system caused the brief outage.

sO when David first looks outside the ship at the Saturn-like planet, he is looking at the simulation - there is no planet.

The simulation theory then explains the mysterious blackout/tilting. It also explains other anomalies. I've mentioned some but another would be the disappearing bodies. Where did Weyland's body disappear to? There was no one around to remove it. The simulation is the same as a computer game - kill a bot in CS or a similar first person shooter game and its body will disappear after a minute or so. 


My theory of what's happening in Prometheus - while I think it's generally on the right track and has high explanatory power - is not conclusive. There are still elements that need to be explained. Solving the riddle would require a collabarative effort because people notice things that others don't.


My theory has these basic elements:

What we see in Prometheus is a simulated recreation of an earlier mission mostly based on the memories of the original crew.

The simulation is generated by the top dogs and most advanced species in this part of the universe. I'll continue to call them Engineers but they are NOT the space jockeys, who are just a version of us. There is at least one of these Engineers on the Prometheus.

The mission appears to be based around the person we know as Shaw and it may be related to the space jockeys' religion (the big head). Shaw is most likely a pawn in a much bigger game and is receiving memories.


As I said, this is not conclusive but it does have good explanatory power.   Please feel free to test it.

Excellent video on Prometheus haters

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Two guys walk in to a bar and talk about Prometheus haters:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ic1butxj4c

They even compare it to Avatar and say that Prometheus is better and I couldn't agree more!

Beers, good company and Prometheus: that's an evening well spent!


Now that the dust has settled...

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Does anyone else feel that after all the soul searching and after the search for a meaning, we were just on a wild goose chase.
I mean, it was fun while it lasted. We waited months to see the deleted scenes and to see the making of...to try and get a grasp of what they were going for...but after everything was said and done, there still is nothing to be found in this movie. 

And that's the most disappointing facet of it all, it doesn't take risks and it doesn't take stances.

It made a big fuss out of the whole religion and science thing, but the answer was: Believe in whatever you want...sure.
And it made a big fuss out of a search for answers, which then led to...heh maybe it's worth it, maybe not...see ya next time. 

I'm sorry, but if the movie is neutral to everything, then i'm not sure it deserves all the time and effort put into researching it.
Everytime i rewatch it, i get more of a feeling of a vacuum, an empty vessel with lots of good ideas thrown in there and with no payoff.

I don't know, i really liked the movie. But all this time after, it hasn't done anything to make me interested in it as i once was.
Anyone else feels this way? 

Milburn's accent

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I'm surprised that I have yet to see this nitpick. Was anyone else just a little bugged by Rafe Spall's inconsistent American accent? When we first meet him, he has a southern accent. It's okay, there's nothing really wrong with it, but to me it does sound a little unnatural. For almost all of his other scenes, he speaks with a nuetral American accent, which to me sounds more authentic. Right before the introduction of the hammerpedes, his southern accent briefly returns.

Anyone else annoyed by this? I know it's really unimportant. Do non-American fans even notice this?

Man of Steel similar to Prometheus?

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Saw man of steel today, I think that this movie take elements of prometheus

The kryptonians are very similars to humans, the kryptonians send spacecrafts since 100,000 years, they are go to in the earth in the past, 20,000 year ago, ¿why? ¿what is the reason? my idea is that with this movie the director wish suggest that the kriptonians could have create or modified the species of our planet and create the human specie, a specie with adn of they but too of the animal species of the earth

what is the possibility of that of species krytonians and humans almost equals haver origins differents ?
the possibility is almost zero, the answer more logic is suppose an same origin 


prometheus is being a influence very big in all the news and futures movies , i see same effect in past decade  with lords of the rings , after of lords of the rings , a lot of movies similars appeared (harry potter, eragon, narnia , etc etc)
 

I kinda want Lex Luthor's LexCorp to being portayed in a similar fashion has the Weyland Corperation

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Lex Luthor and the Joker are considered the granddaddies of comic book villains and i had a thought the way Peter Weyland during the TED Talk was acting, his Mannerism i kinda want Lex Luthor to be kinda portrayed like that whether in Man Of Steel 2 or another superman reboot down the line. Me personally i always thought Lex Luthor should be a Objectivist and a person that strongly Believes in Ayn Rand philosophy and his goal of destroying Superman is that reason to create a utopia  in a similar fashion to Atlas Shrugged. 

After watching Prometheus Brainaic should be portrayed design wise the way the engineer looks in the film when i was watching Prometheus what was going thru my head was man this engineer reminds me of Brainaic. Brainaic should be portrayed has the ultimate nihilist i mean his creators where fans of HP Lovecraft Mountains of Madness, he has the potential to be very very creepy i always wanted Brainaic to be Coluan but Bio-mechanical in design. What do you guys think on the idea?   

why the engineers wanted to kill us

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when the engineer wakes up and is looking at everyone, Shaw starts asking "why do they want us dead" "what did we do?" and so on..... 

in one of the scenes, i cant remember, but they were talking about what would happen if you met your creator and its not what you expected, or what if you didnt even like your creator, and this got me thinking from the other side, what would you do if you were an engineer and you created humans and they started to follow another higher power? you wouldnt be very happy either. 

Thats when i thought of AVP and remember them thinking that predators taught humans. I came to the idea that the engineers created humans and humans worshiped the engineers for a while, then once they left and let the human race grow on its own the Predators stepped in and started influencing the human race (as seen in AVP). 

The engineers got pissed because their creation started to worship another higher power - the predators 

what do you think?
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